CHART: @iJustine’s Plateau Reveals The True Benefits Of Being On The Twitter Suggested User List
Last night I was involved in a fascinating discussion with Robert Scoble and others on Friendfeed about the merits of Twitter’s controversial suggested users list (SUL).
Robert, who has never been on the SUL, shared his hypothesis that the people on the SUL have an inflated follow count that they cannot replicate on other social networks (Friendfeed, Facebook, etc). He used tech guru Tim O’Reilly as an example. Ultimately, O’Reilly arrived and participated in the debate. I encourage you to read the full thread on Friendfeed.
Why does being on the SUL matter? Predominately, it affords the lucky few a huge advantage in building the numbers of followers in their network. At the beginning of March, Tim O’Reilly had just over 40,000 followers on Twitter.
Check out his chart over the past three months:

For comparative purposes, check out Robert Scoble’s chart for this same period. At the beginning of March, Robert had about 67,000 followers.

The different here is considerable. Scoble had seen an increase in his follower count of about 23,000 – some 32 per cent. Over the same period, O’Reilly has gained about half a million followers, an increase of almost 400 per cent.
To further illustrate the benefits of being part of this elite group, check out the chart of iJustine, who was previously a member of the SUL but was removed for undisclosed reasons.

iJustine has actually lost about 7,000 followers in the past six weeks or so. I cannot find a specific date when she no longer appeared on the SUL, but the chart seems to indicate it was early May. Nobody active on the SUL has a chart like this – the drop in followers is very clearly connected to no longer being featured on the list.
I’ve written before on this blog about the perks for brands and self-promoters in having huge, million-strong networks on Twitter. I’ve also done my own study on click-through rates, and it seems logical that the larger your network, the more clicks you’re going to get to your product pages. But Scoble (and others) have suggested that because the suggested user list is predominately aimed at newcomers to the Twitter network (they’re presented with it when they first sign up), most of the followers that connect with those on the SUL are of the very casual, non-engaging variety that make up the bulk of Twitter’s drop-off rate. In other words, you might end up with a big army, but a lot of ‘em are firing blanks.
O’Reilly had this to say about his own experiences:
“And for what it’s worth, the SUL isn’t very useful except for bragging rights. I had about 60K twitter followers when I went on the SUL; my peak click through-rate has perhaps doubled now that I have 10 times as many. Organic followers are what matters, except, as I say, for the media credibility that you get from people who don’t know any better.”
So does this suggest that the criticisms of the SUL are unwarranted? No, because the long-term benefits are not yet apparent – a study by O’Reilly media themselves showed that the average user gained 53,000 followers in their first week after being added to the SUL. This was against an average of about 1,900 followers for the same users the week before. After one month, new users to the SUL see a network gain of about 198,000. If O’Reilly has added almost 500,000 in three months, he could be looking at a couple of million within a year. Yes, a big percentage of those followers will be one-hit wonders, but even if it’s as high as 90 per cent (which seems unlikely), that’s still 200,000 eyeballs.
TechCrunch has stated that Twitter now accounts for about 10 per cent of all their traffic, approximately a third of what they receive from Google. That’s huge.
It’s not fair to single out Tim, as this isn’t really about him per se – it’s about everybody on the list. Specifically, it’s about their ethical responsibility. Scoble proposed that being on the SUL is a “huge gift” from Twitter, and it’s one that has exclusively been given to celebrities and brands, as well as blogs and technical commentators that provide enormous, mostly very positive coverage about the Twitter network. This naturally raises concerns about whether these latter groups can remain impartial. As Dave Winer has noted, it can, and does, change the way people tweet.
“I’m watching a NY Times columnist, who was added to the list last week, leapfrog his competition. It changed the way he posts. (He openly says that, he may have been joking, but you should watch those jokes, they usually reveal some truth, that’s why they’re funny.)”
Winer proposes that those on the list are there because Twitter essentially sees them as ‘safe’, and people like him and Scoble are far too unpredictable, and might say something that Twitter isn’t comfortable with. The problem with this, he adds, is that probability suggests that ultimately somebody already on the SUL is going to say something bad (maybe iJustine already did), and Twitter is going to be stuffed.
This is probably something we should hope for, as perhaps only then will the SUL become fully accountable. Twitter needs to publish the reasons why person A makes the SUL while person B does not. It doesn’t make a lot of sense, and if it’s simply because the people in the list are unlikely to say anything negative about Twitter, then it’s really completely and utterly worthless as a recommendation tool. It’s one thing to add Oprah to the list, as she’s a huge deal and Twitter would have been foolish not to take advantage of her interest for their own gain, but what about the commercial opportunities afforded to Dell, Jetblue Airways, CNN, Wholefoods and other brands? Why include Tech Blog A over Tech Blog B? And what in God’s name is Newt Gingrich doing on there?
Many moons ago I proposed that the SUL should be scrapped and be replaced with a different system made up of purchased ‘impressions’, where anybody could buy a number of rotations of their Twitter profile per month. What’s the value of being on the SUL? Jason Calacanis ruffled a few feathers back in March when he offered Twitter $250,000 for two years on their suggested user list, later revising this to $500,000 for three. Twitter turned him down, but they missed a real opportunity here, but it’s one that, I think, is still available. And significantly fairer.
Twitter needs money. Monetize the list. Make it open to everybody. Perhaps it could run a little like Google Adsense, where you buy impressions but only get charged if somebody follows you. Or just charge a flat-out fee – even a million dollars is a bargain for the brand or blog that ends up with a million followers. That’s $1 per user, per year, and you can hit them as many times as you like, 24/7, 365 days in a row. Where else in marketing do you see this kind of value?
And if they get fed up and unfollow you, don’t worry about it. Because by this time next week, Twitter will have found another 53,000 to take their place. And the next week. And the next week. And the next week…
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I think you’re making way too much of a fuss about all this.
There’s certainly no conspiracy about Twitter choosing people who are “safe.” I wasn’t privy to the discussions, but I imagine it went something like this:
“We’re hearing that people who sign up for twitter have trouble getting the hang of it because they don’t know who to follow?”
“Great idea? Who shall we put on it?”
Quick brainstorming session, consisting of brain dump by Twitter employees and advisers. A mix of celebrities that they thought might appeal to newbies plus people that they themselves follow and find interesting.
At the end of the day, folks like Scoble and Winer are unhappy because they aren’t on the list. It doesn’t feel fair to them, so they do the next best thing, seeking publicity by complaining about it.
Frankly, I imagine Twitter will eventually do away with the idea, or rotate the names, or do something else creative. I don’t worry about it. And I don’t write anything different because I know I have all those random followers. I tweet for my organic followers. The people who follow from the SUL list are either going to like what I tweet, and keep following, or they aren’t.
Yes, it is a gift from Twitter. But it is a gift without strings. And when you realize how little impact the big list of SUL followers has (except for mainstream media attention to the numbers), you realize that this is all a tempest in a teapot.
Your analysis of the numerical impact of being on the SUL is certainly correct. But that analysis should help you understand just how unimportant the SUL is to the real conversation happening on twitter.
Tim, thanks for replying. I think a lot less fuss would be made over this issue if your hypothesis as to how Twitter came up with who should be in the SUL (and who didn’t make the cut) was shown to be accurate by Twitter themselves.
One of the consistent issues I and others have with Twitter is that everything they do is cloaked in secrecy. We either get told about stuff after a major change has been made (i.e., @replies), don’t hear anything at all until enough complaints are raised (i.e., people vanishing from search and Find People) or have things like the SUL where Twitter reveals next to nothing about why person or brand A is included while person or brand B is not.
Of course, they don’t *have* to tell us anything – but that kind of stance inevitably leads to the “fuss” to which you reference.
I think a higher level of transparency would go a long, long way to appease a lot of people.
Tim, your media company published a Twitter book (which you co-authored, right?), right? You also recently had a bootcamp where you charged money to advise businesses on how to use Twitter, correct? Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you also on the SUL?
So tell me, were you put on the list because you wrote a book and you have these bootcamps that indirectly profits both you and Twitter (helps Twitter gain/maintain users and puts money in your pocket) or was it because your tweets are valuable and if so…why are they “valuable”?
To me, it is a conflict of interest for Twitter to have you on the list and I find it kind of “odd” that you’d point out someone else whining without pointing out your benefit of Twitter staying exactly as it is – continuing to grow so you can build products around it.
There are many problems with Twitter essentially saying who is good and who isn’t without clarifying why others are glaringly missing and what qualifies those people to be on the list beside they are cool. That directly implies everyone else isn’t.
Let’s also keep in mind since the SUL went live the number of users that initially sign up, leave and don’t come back increased as well. Of course increased traffic has a part in this but the SUL really doesn’t help people connect with content they are interested in, does it?
As you said, the SUL is unimportant to the “real conversation”. It does nothing to help people find out what the “real conversation” of the moment is…does it? If it isn’t helping people find those valuable conversations, why have it?
And if it’s not that big of a deal – ask to be removed from the list…since it really doesn’t matter.
I was at SFO waiting for a flight to Frankfurt when this discussion was happening, so I wasn’t able to give it a proper response. I have two things to say:
1. Tim’s comments about my emotions don’t deserve a reply other than he should speak for himself. I wasn’t even participating in this discussion.
2. I just posted a series of suggestions for what to do to unwind the mess caused by the SUL.
http://www.scripting.com/stories/2009/07/07/newRulesForTheSul.html
.-= Dave Winer´s last blog ..Rebooting the News #15 =-.
Tim: it’s interesting you take the stance you do. I guess if Twitter handed me $100,000 without any supposed strings attached I’d take the same stance you do. But to claim it hasn’t changed the conversation on Twitter is wrong and, I believe, provably so (several people are studying it, so far it’s easier just to build the kinds of graphs that are posted here). I’ve noticed lots of changes in people’s behavior once they get onto the SUL (many accounts are less critical of Twitter, many link outside their own media families a lot less). But gifts don’t need to have an explicit demand associated with them to have an effect. This is why I was kept from accepting gifts of ANY kind when I was at Fast Company Magazine (at least ones worth more than $100, which this gift certainly is).
It is NOT a gift without strings, either. The fact that they kept Leo Laporte off of it demonstrates that. The string here is “you must not criticize us if you want to be on the SUL.”
I love that the people who say it isn’t an important gift are the ones who were given it. That seems to me intellectual laziness at best and something else at worst.
This was engineering laziness and a stab in the back to people who really use the service. After all, @oprah is on the list and she does the worst tweets and is infrequent to boot. What does that tell all the other people who’ve done braver and more interesting work that aren’t recognized?
And, sorry, because this affects my business in a very real way I think you’re absolutely on the wrong side of this and it is FAR from only being about me. Guy Kawasaki had more followers than you did. So did Leo Laporte (and he’s even a bona fide celebrity, on radio stations all over the world). So did Jason Calacanis (who has started conferences and businesses). The fact that they aren’t on the list and Oprah (and worse, a stupid made up cat account) are on the list is BS.
Or an alternate approach would be to keep off anybody from the SUL whose business (or livelihood) depends on follower count. So Oprah and Sockington would be fine. And new users could get suggestions to follow that don’t need to work them for any profit. Thoughts?
Indeed; I said something similar in this comment.
I can totally understand featuring celebrities on the list because it raises brand awareness and legitimises the product (certainly to the masses). Therefore, as you say, removing anybody who potentially can make a buck from the benefits of being on the list would be a smart move on Twitter’s part.
Of course, this would include newspapers and broadcasters, too.
That said, there’s potential for anybody to make money on the SUL, and that includes celebrities – it won’t be long before Britney is pushing CDs and concert tickets, and I can’t believe MC Hammer hasn’t attempted a comeback by now.
That said, it’s not just about money – influence is a factor here, too. Just wait until Hynotoad has two million followers.
Yes, I suppose I could see that argument against newspapers, etc although I don’t buy the sometimes-proffered argument that it’s a gift that morally compromises the recipient (where the recipient is a news organization, not a reporter). Of course, I would also argue that for newspapers the traffic doesn’t really mean much money at all.
“True benefits”? If you believe this data (http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/cs/2009/06/new_twitter_research_men_follo.html) or anything close to it, isn’t the only real “benefit” an inflated number of followers, followers who are hugely likely to not actually be following a damn thing a few weeks later?
But Robert, your criticism of Oprah being on the list, though I agree personally, misses a key point: If the idea of the suggested-user list is to help people warm up to Twitter, doesn’t it make sense to load that list with familiar faces like Oprah?
Mike, I addressed both of these points in my article. On the drop-off rate:
On Oprah:
Wanna talk about SUL things that just don’t smell right??
Here’s a question for you:
What do Ryan Seacrest (RyanSeacrest), Giuliana Rancic (GiulianaRancic), Denise Richards (DENISE_RICHARDS), Chelsea Lately (chelsealately), E! Online (eonline), Kim Kardashian (KimKardashian) and G4TV (g4tv) all have in common?
They’re all on the SUV and they’re all part of Comcast Entertainment Group.
I’m sorry but that’s got me more than a little concerned that there ARE deals going on. I am not so naive as to think that the Comcast (E!) people are just sitting back rejoicing in their good fortune that SEVEN of their Twitter accounts are in the list.
Unless Twitter’s staff are plain stupid, they would know they’ve just given a massive (and unfair?) leg-up to a corporate entertainment empire in quite a stunning way with seven accounts on the list… and since I assume they’re not that stupid, should I not conclude it was deliberate? Why??
Anyone have more information on this?
Cheers,
-Alister
@alicam on Twitter
Mike: Oprah makes some sense but they put her on after she did just a handful of Tweets. She hasn’t been a very good Twitterer and is on there just because she’s a superstar. Which shows just how this list is used. Brands get onto it because Twitter wants to have a relationship with brands. Superstars get on there because they are the ones who hype up the service. People like Tim get on there because he’s interesting and because he never does anything negative. The rest of us can suck eggs and watch our businesses fall behind others who are given this gift. Think that doesn’t matter? http://www.wefollow.com and other directories pick those who are popular.
I both agree that these new “unearned” audiences aren’t very engaged, but they are large enough and there is SOME engagement. In tracking that I’m seeing these large audiences do have a big effect. TechCrunch is watching that effect. Twitter used to be 2% of its traffic. Now it’s about 7%. That’s a sizeable increase in just a few months. Will Techcrunch and Mashable be nicer to Twitter because of this gift? Well, the threat of that is certainly there which is why most journalists aren’t allowed to take gifts and/or need to disclose when they get the gifts and are discussing the company that gave them the gift.
Anyway, I’m done arguing with this. I’m off to do more interviews for http://www.building43.com and I’ll live and die on the quality of the content we get there. Arguing about this just takes me away from doing that and I’ve spent enough energy on this topic. Onward!
Robert, as I said in the piece – TechCrunch’s Twitter traffic was almost 10 per cent for May.
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/14/for-techcrunch-twitter-traffic-a-statistical-breakdown/
That’s about a third of what they got from Google. This is a big deal. I would imagine that Mashable’s was higher still, as they’re more active than TC. As I mentioned, even if Twitter’s drop-off rate within SUL followers was as high as 90 per cent – which seems very unlikely – that’s still 100 thousand interested people for every million you get. And being on the SUL looks like it will get you that million in about six months. For free. Where else are people afforded that kind of benefit?
Given the relatively small traffic amounts for these sites overall, I’d be curious if any of them have released absolute numbers (rather than percentages). Anybody have an angle?
As you said yourself, people are a little cagey about releasing specific details about traffic. Even Twitter doesn’t do that.
I like watching very prominent people squabble about the SUL. It reminds me that insecurity is part of human nature. Also, it reminds me of arguments about who got to design the Highschool Yearbook cover, or who would win the award for best-looking hair. Tim is correct, it is a tempest in a teapot. The SUL defeats itself because twitter is about interaction – and most people on the SUL will not generally interact with new users. It would be work fine if Twitter’s success was built on asymmetrical communications, but it is made of symmetrical communication, which in turn makes the community.
Robert,
The big issue that I have with your argument is that it singles out Tim and portrays him as the villain when your real beef is with the SUL. I think singling him out has taken away from the real issue which is that Twitter (through the SUL) is promoting brands which in my opinion, have not earned any attention though useful participation in the community.
I think it’s a shame that you are going to drop this since I think your premise is correct; the SUL is awkward and unfair to those that have been valuable and interesting over time. Whining about Tim’s follower count as a result of his listing on the SUL is a bad example of the effects since I think that Tim (like you) is a good example of what I find enjoyable about Twitter and the like.
fair points with regard to some people in a commercial sector being given preferential treatment to get more followers. but hey, not *everyone* is after gazillions of followers.
No, they’re not, but that’s not really the issue here. The main point is that those on the SUL get a huge advantage over those that are not, and many of these people (in the list) don’t need the help at all.
Twitter needs more personalised recommendations via a much bigger database, or a limit on how long anybody can stay on the list before being removed and replaced with somebody else. This would be a far more equitable process than that which we have now.
O’Reilly is only happy because he is on the list. You can easily see that Techcrunch and Mashable and OReilly (people on the SUL) are talking wonders about Twitter.
It’s bullshit.
To take the argument over into the realm of the have’s and the have nots as Tim has done misses the point of how Twitter, by changing the rules of the game mid stream this way, has set a scary precedent.
As a no-name, not in your guys field, who steadily built a network with six months of effort to 20K, I can tell you I do not trust twitter will not pull the carpet out from underneath the efforts folks have poured through its platform.
For instance: why is no one talking about it’s ruining twitter search? A major part of my practice was to cull back conversations to keep connections in play. oops…now that’s gone. Anybody else have a problem with that?
.-= Richard Reeve´s last blog ..The Dragon =-.
You did actually bother to research this, and found the Twitter blog from *March* explaining why they created the SUL, right?
http://blog.twitter.com/2009/03/suggested-users.html
You have actually analysed the public data that you can get via bitly (any link can be analysed for its clickthroughs) to figure out its value, right?
I’m guessing no and no.
Brutal though it is, some people are just more interesting than others. Perhaps the Twitter folk thought Tim O’R's tweets, linking as they so often do all around the web to interesting topics, were just more… engaging than yours or Scoble’s.
I know that in the world of the permanent “me” the idea that someone else is actually **more interesting than you** may seem radical, but actually it’s how things tick along in the real world.
And what do you think you’d do with all those followers? March on Moscow? The SUL may have a symbiotic value for Twitter and those on it, but the reality is that a lot more of the value goes to Twitter. Once, that is, it figures out a commercial model.
Charles – yes, I did research it, and I’ve read and written about Twitter’s blog piece on their explanation about the make-up of the SUL in this article, which I wrote on March 26, the day after they published.
Did I analyse the thousands and thousands of bit.ly links out there for everybody in the SUL, before and after they were recruited, assuming that they even use bit.ly at all, which many do not? No. If anybody wants to do that, then great – I’ll be more than happy to incorporate the data into this and any future articles. However, through my own research I have a reasonable idea of click-through rates, and I also included Tim O’Reilly’s personal observations within my article for balance.
All that said, you seem to be misunderstanding my agenda. First, I’m not for a second proposing that *I* should be on the SUL, nor have I ever suggested that. I accept that it makes sense for those on the SUL to be established and well-known, if only to make Twitter seem familiar and comfortable to newcomers. Second, however, your suggestion that the people on the list, which includes @Oprah, @MarthaStewart and @Sockington, are more interesting and relevant than, say, @ChrisBrogan or Robert or @JackSchofield or @GCluley or hundreds of other, in my opinion far more worthy people, seems a little misguided. Do you really think @Sockington’s tweets are more interesting than @Scobleizer’s?
The issue here isn’t that everybody and anybody needs to be on the SUL – that would defeat the point of such a feature entirely – but simply that the folk who are recommended are relevant to the user. And that Twitter acknowledges the major gift they’re giving to members of the suggested user list, and strives for balance within it accordingly. I’ve made some notes about how this could be done in this post. At a minimum the SUL should be a mix of Twitter’s hand-picked celebrities and brands alongside a list of tailored recommendations generated by my personal interests/goals.
Look at this another way: would you be happy if Google had ‘suggested links’ at the top of all of your search queries (not the ads – the actual search results)? Or would you rather the most relevant links were the first ones you saw? That’s the nub of the issue here – keeping things relevant to the user, and you can’t do this by giving a major advantage to a small list of users at the expense of everybody else.
And to answer your final point about what I think I’d do with “all those followers”: live the good life. I have about 3000 followers on Twitter. I started this blog in late February 2009, and it now gets 25-30,000 unique visits per month, which is all generated (initially) through my Twitter profile. So that’s 8-10x the amount of uniques to followers (the boost is explained because of re-tweets).
Now, let’s assume that my network is quite organic and focused right now, and that click-through rate drops to about half of that if I was on the SUL and picked up a million followers in six months – that’s still 4-5 million uniques per month. Even if we reduced the numbers to something daft and unlikely such as one user clicking on average once per month, that’s a million visits. That’s a lot of ad impressions. And this blog, like many, has lots of regulars. And we can all tweet many times per day, week in, week out.
This is huge. It’s one thing if you do this by yourself because you’re famous or ‘worthy’ enough to build a huge network – only a fool would propose that the celebrities and brands should be restricted from having a large follow count – but nearly all the folks on Twitter’s list don’t need the assistance. They’re getting an unfair advantage, which for many will likely lead to enormous financial gain, and the entire process feels insular and contrived.
Seriously: try the analytics on, say, @nytimes. More than a million followers. Now write down on some paper how many clicks the average story gets.
Now go away and calculate it. See how closely they match.
There’s a saying in business: revenue is vanity, profit is sanity but cash is king. There must be an equivalent for Twitter which begins “Followers are vanity…” I don’t know what the rest is though. Maybe someone else can work it out.
This article alone received 113 clicks from my own opening bit.ly link – which would have been my direct network (so about 3%) – and 426 in total thanks to re-tweets and re-packaging, just from Twitter, which equates to about 14% of my total network. And that’s a pretty low number for me, certainly from my direct network. That’s typically the minimum. All-told, across the web, it’s had almost 1500 unique views.
My article on configuring TweetDeck’s API has had 3,184 bit.ly clicks. It had 164 yesterday alone when I re-tweeted it myself.
I’m not sure what to say about the NY Times beyond that it’s a non-engaging feed, often with poor, bland headlines, and that might explain why the click-throughs aren’t as good as for those who get a little more stuck in. That said, their most recent article currently has about 1600 bit.ly clicks.
http://bit.ly/info/109Pwe
The @nytimes account tweets about 40 times per day. Let’s assume the average click-rate is as above (looking at a few other links it seems about right, although some links get a lot more traffic) – that’s 40 x 1600 clicks per day = 64,000. Or 1,920,000 per month. Which is double their network size, so it’s better than the minimum, worst-case scenario I suggested. If they engaged, I’d imagine it would be significantly higher.
And this is direct clicks from their opening link. It ignores re-packaging and any re-tweets therein. The overall number, like it is for me, will be a lot higher.
OK – let’s assume your numbers are right for NYT (they’re optimistic, but not a mile off).
1.92m pageviews per month. OK.
October 2008: NYT pageviews: 173m (http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/12/new-york-times-just-11-billion-monthly-pageviews-away-from-surviving-nyt)
For the NYT, it’s a drop in the bucket. The SUL is far more valuable to Twitter than the NYT.
And 1600 clicks average from 1.1m followers. It would take a lot of engagement to up that. Maybe you could manage it. But I’d suggest (ha) that this is an angels-and-pinheads argument in reality. Twitter’s great, but the spectacle of folks get their knickers twisted over the idea that big follower numbers are immensely valuable per se says more about them than the reality.
It’s still a huge gift from Twitter, often to those who don’t need or deserve it. I’ve never made any suggestions that Twitter traffic is bigger than anything else on the internet, but it is a big deal. As above, TechCrunch stated it was responsible for about 10% of their traffic in May, or about one-third of that from Google. And that’s a number that likely will climb every month. Indeed, Twitter is replacing a lot of the traffic that previously came from other sources, such as RSS, Digg and other social network sites.
Eventually, assuming Twitter lives up to the hype and doesn’t die a horrible death, traffic from the network *will* be comparable to anything on the internet. Moreover, it’s a real-time, easily targeted* network source that you can repeatedly hit many times each and every day. Right now, does it match up to Google? Of course not – Twitter only really came into its own about six months ago. But a great many people are now using the network for the source of a lot of their daily news.
That said, surely you could easily work out how much of a benefit the SUL list was to @guardiantech, which saw a huge increase in followers? Doing some quick calculations, @guardiantech tweets about 13 times per day, and seems to get about 800 or so initial clicks per bit.ly link. So that’s, what, 312,000 per month, just from the opening link? And as I’ve said, lots of people re-package links so they can track the output themselves (I know I often do). What was @guardiantech getting from Twitter before the SUL? That’s the real gist of all of this. (Incidentally, I’m not suggesting @guardiantech shouldn’t be on there. I’m just curious about the benefits.)
* On that, it’s worth noting that if I re-tweet the same link several times per day, it’s different people clicking on it each time. As we all know, things get easily missed on Twitter, certainly if you follow enough people, which explains in part the fairly low initial click-throughs for everybody. 1600 clicks from 1.1m is pretty poor, agreed, but they don’t do this once a month. They do it 40 times a day. Every day.
Incidentally, I’m talking unique visits here – not page views. NYTimes.com got 15.7m unique visits in October 2008. I have no idea how many bit.ly visitors go on to view other pages on the site they’re visiting. Probably a lot on a news site, with all those headlines.
NYTimes.com got about 15m visits last month – so that means Twitter is responsible for somewhere around 10% of their traffic now, too. Which as said has likely replaced lost traffic from elsewhere.
I applaud an effort to actually CALCULATE the value as opposed to just throwing out large numbers with no real basis in reality.
I can’t get into the internal analytics, but those numbers are off significantly. The main culprit here is Bitly. I have confirmed with tech support that Bitly counts DECODES not CLICKTHROUGHS and that seems to inflate numbers 4-5x.
In addition, visits is generally one of the more bogus fudging you can look at. If you want to calculate based on CPM, you have to go with page views.
Which of course are a lot tougher to estimate externally. That’s a real shame about bit.ly; kind of makes the service a bit redundant. Can’t be long before a competitor comes along to take the crown with reliable data.
On a side note, I’ve really go to sort out these narrowing replies.
I’m tired of that narrow column so I’m going to restart here
1) hard to know – impossible perhaps – whether Twitter clicks are new visitors who wouldn’t have come otherwise, or just people who are finding out sooner about stuff they’d come to read anyway.
2) I think it’s unlikely they’ll click to other pages. Sure, that depends on the site, but looking at the analytics tends to suggest people dive in and out of newspaper sites.
3) can’t be sure they’re unique visitors. Likely that one person will follow multiple links from a feed. Though again, very difficult to find out unless you somehow gave every person a unique URL to click.
4) @guardiantech before the SUL? Don’t have the numbers, I’m afraid – sorry.
In the end, one can see that to a person, the SUL looks enormously valuable – but I still think a lot of that is in the bragging rights people like from having lots of followers. The reality is they’re not money in the bank.
It’s been money in the bank for Dell, and one assumes TechCrunch and Mashable, too. Sure, it’s early days, and relatively the money is slight, but as networks grow the overall click-throughs have to increase.
If TechCrunch (and one assumes, Mashable, given they have more followers and tweet more regularly) is seeing a 10% return from their Twitter ‘investment’, it’s probable that anyone on the SUL with a similar network who semi-engages and promotes their own material is going to see these results, too.
In just a couple of months Twitter has leapt over Digg as a bigger source of Traffic for TC. As I’ve said (more than once now, I think), Twitter is likely just replacing that lost traffic, so the overall numbers are probably flat (or slightly up, in Mashable’s case – see here). But that doesn’t take anything away from the impact that the right approach to Twitter, coupled with a very large network, can produce.
This less affects users like @aplusk and @theellenshow as they don’t share a lot of links, and when they do, it’s usually to external websites. But for brands and the power-blogs, the boost in traffic that naturally follows a huge boost in followers, wherever they come from, is a big deal. And the SUL makes it that little bit easier for the lucky few.
Of course, one other way for Twitter to get around all this griping and moaning is to avoid adding robots/feeds and mass self-promoters to the SUL. I think most people have less of an issue with @Oprah being on the list – daft as that is as an example of an interesting Twitterer, even if it is completely understandable from a PR point of view – than they do the brands, the blogs and the gurus.
I think one way to look at this is to compare to RSS readers. An RSS subscription isn’t *that* much more of a big deal for most people than following somebody on Twitter. It’s a fairly casual decision – you either want to subscribe, or you don’t.
Now, if you have 100K RSS readers on your blog, that doesn’t mean that 100,000 people are regularly hanging on to your every word. I don’t know if there’s any kind of rule-of-thumb for RSS but let’s say it’s 20,000. That means somebody with 20,000 subscribers only has a true readership of about 4,000. Either way, the guy with 100K wins, even if 80% of his subscribers are very casual readers or ignore the site completely. I see no reason why the network boost one receives from the SUL, inflated as those numbers are with a lot of one-time newbies, spammers, robots and ghosts, shouldn’t see similar readership rates.
Shame about the @guardiantech numbers – that could have told us an awful lot about the perks.
Not to rain on everybody’s money parade, but I found a huge upward discrepancy between the @nytimes clickthrough rates and our internal analytics (which I don’t know if I have clearance to share). Long and short of it, bitly clickthroughs are actually bitly decodes (eg, whenever a toolbar expands a short URL with a link that ALSO counts). The actual number of clickthroughs I’m seeing is less than 1/4 the reported number from Bitly. Which is annoying, because I switched the nytimes over to bitly precisely to share the analytics.
Still, it’s fitting I suppose. By attempting to find the value of one arbitrary metric, we find out another is also tenuous at best.
That’s very interesting, Jacob. Traffic data between different analytics software never matches up exactly but that’s a huge difference, which is odd as I find bit.ly’s rates are pretty similar to everything else I look at (Google, WordPress Stats, etc). Indeed, when I watch my stats ‘live’ using a specialist WP plugin, they correlate pretty much exactly with the live bit.ly numbers.
As a matter of interest, can I ask what you’re comparing bit.ly’s traffic to? It’s worry as if we can’t trust the trackers, certainly if they’re that off for the big sites, we’re kind of stuffed.
Also, if you can get that clearance, that’d be grand.
All I care about is Twitter traffic. Even if it’s just a percentage, that’d be useful, as NYT’s totals are available (approximately) in several places. Cheers!
It is interesting, and I am glad to share what I can.
If you look at any link to the @nytimes twitter account, you might notice I append ?src=twt&twt=nytimes which allows our internal analytics software to break down traffic by twitter as a whole or subfeeds. This also has the side effect of ensuring that bit.ly’s stats are only for the feed as anybody shortening the page on the site will get a different URL. Which makes it pretty easy to compare the two and no it’s exactly the same traffic.
I emailed bit.ly about it and got the answer that decodes are the source of the discrepancy (as well as some bot-filtering that causes clickthroughs to drop after June 15).
If it helps, Quantcast is doing public analytics on nytimes.com http://www.quantcast.com/nytimes.com that suggests your 10% estimate from above is sadly more like 1.7% if the traffic were that large (haven’t looked at the internal analytics on that)
http://www.quantcast.com/nytimes.com#traffic
This is all very curious. How do we explain TechCrunch and Mashable’s Twitter growth (or my own, for that matter)? The NYT tweets about 40 times per day, as I said. Mashable does 21.5, TC a relatively low 15.2. All three accounts essentially link exclusively back to their own websites. It seems odd to me that TC claims 10% Twitter traffic and the NYT claims less than 2%. I suppose one could make the social media connection, but it can’t just be that. We’ve all seen the Stephen Fry effect – he breaks websites when he tweets a link.
Still, 2% of your page views is still a reasonable total number. It’s worth noting that the Quantcast numbers just count US visitors I think, too, which explains the discrepancy with other sites.
For what it’s worth, Twitter is responsible for 21.24% of my own (modest) traffic, but you’d kind of expect that.
I don’t think it’s as high as 2% or 1% of traffic, but that is based on my own feelings and not any analytics I have looked at or not.
I think the crucial difference here is scale and audience. TC and Mashable are both small sites with a tech focus. NYTimes has a much larger total traffic and a general focus. Small plus tech might see a bigger boost because a change from one small number to the next is a bigger percentage point and there are a lot of techies on twitter still.
As a fairly recent member of the blogging and social media community, this post and even more so the comments have been an incredible source of information. What we are all witnessing is the change from subscriber based viewing to customized/personalized media consumption. Business models like Boxee that allow for complete choice of what to watch will be very successful. But what cam I hope for as an aspiring writer/blogger? Even if I built up readership to 100k subscribers most of them will ignore their feed and just read passed links from friends on facebook and twitter. What up an coming content creators need to focus on is winning everytime. By consistently getting shared and RT’d your influence and core audience (real followers that I like to think of as community members) grows.
Provocative article even though the SUL isn’t a new concept.
As to monetization for Twitter I have my own concepts. Simply feeding status into advertising aggregators like Google adsense would allow pertinent link ads without devaluing unbiased link sharing. In fact I’m writing the code to do so now with a few friends.
That’s very interesting Mark – keep me up to speed with your developments there, as the (potential)monetisation of Twitter is a very hot topic.
Will do Sheamus.
Here’s the link if you’re curious: http://www.victusspiritus.com/2009/06/23/notional-framework-for-monetization-web2010/
Im finding it really hard to understand the importance and concern being addressed of a single screen at the signup stage of twitter (the SUL) that adds a number to a follower account which has little, less or no value in comparison to the value of being choosen to be followed.
Last I hard twitter was free, for us, but also, last I heard, its a business and its their business. If you would prefer to pay to maintain it rather than have them generate the cash through the SUL or deals they have made, be my guest, I like it just the way it is.
.-= Justin Parks´s last blog ..Monitoring your brand in twitter with TweetTabs =-.
Being free doesn’t make a service immune from criticism, Justin. The majority pay nothing for Google and Facebook, either, but that doesn’t mean they should just passively ignore anything that takes place within those networks.
Twitter has stated no deals have been made between themselves and those on the SUL. As I said in the follow-up piece to this article, if folk were buying a spot on the list, it would actually be a fairer system. Particularly if it was done by impressions or keywords. The issue is less the suggested user list itself, and more Twitter’s criteria for including/excluding people on/from it, and the enormous boost in network size, status and, inevitably, revenue, that the lucky few then receive.
Absolutely agree Sheamus, but I just don’t see the point of getting my knickers in a twist about it. I guess I am totally resigned to the fact that I will never personally appear there or indeed want to appear there
.
I think your right to point this out by the way, I think it is of interest to people how the selection of the SUL is made, for me out of pure nosiness in all honesty, and indeed if it is being manipulated to benefit some particular party or other for the obvious benefits.
Quite possibly in the future you might see twitter having a refined SUL based on the information a new account holder adds in using bio and location keywords to offer up more targeted and interesting suggested users (I’m totally speculating here) and would for me, make the most sense progression wise, but at the moment it is what it is and some lucky few are reaping the (supposed?) benefits.
Random question. What about Google?
One thing that’s clear in all of this discussion is that all sorts of sites depend on Google traffic. And 4-5x a year Google tweaks its algorithm which can really change a site’s ranking. This algorithm tweaking is done by people and can be tweaked to promote certain sites or punish other sites? Going with the Google analogy earlier, does this mean Google is gifting/punishing sites? And if not, why not?
*GASP!* Google would NEVER do such a thing!… no honestly… what do you mean you dont believe me…
.-= Justin Parks´s last blog ..Monitoring your brand in twitter with TweetTabs =-.
Like open source movement, we need an open content movement. Even then, we may not remove SUL, but may know why someone is in SUL.